Quality Relationship

Quality Relationship

Successful relationships come down to shared values and interests.
You can't change anyone. They must naturally have these values and interests already.
Honesty and openness are vital to a good relationship. However, they are not sufficient for a great relationship.

Other attributes such as being pretty or handsome, lovely, cute, charming, etc., are common and get the relationship started. However, over time, these traits fade in terms of motivation to keep the relationship going forward. If there aren't some strong values and interests that you both have, then the relationship is doomed to either separation or unhappiness. (Some people value a trophy wife or subserviant maid, and if that's enough for you, then disregard the rest of this.)

It's my goal in this article to address the above issues in the context of having a Thai girlfriend. I know this article has a lot yet to be written on the cultural elements, but human nature is pretty much the same everywhere, and I wish to emphasize those elements which I see as key elements over and over with guys I know who have Thai girlfriends and wives, and issues I've had over and over myself.

Qualitative Rating

As food for thought, I've put together a light list of qualities which I use in rating a girlfriend or wife. You might want to think about how you would rate yours on a scale of 1 to 5, though there will be no quantitative scoring system on this website since different people weigh each of these values differently. They're not in any order... and I myself don't expect a top score in every category in a good mate. Some are basics that you could hire non-mates for, whereas others are essential to a mating "relationship".

By "relationship", I don't necessarily mean a wife. There are relationships where both sides find each other interesting and mutually benefit and learn for awhile. Some Thai ladies like to learn the foreigner ways, just as you may find Thai culture and its differences from your own to be interesting. Many Thai ladies also benefit from exposure to the lifestyle of a foreigner due to his higher spending power. They go to nice places for dining and entertainment, watch expat friends in action, and basically you're a "walking farang entertainment center".

But what's in it for you?

-"Love" and affection
-Assistance in living in Thailand where you learn things (translations, explanations)
-Homemaking (laundry, shopping, good food), save you time and hassle
-Work - outside income or helps you with your business
-Intellectual input and stimulation (analysis from a different perspective, news, research, etc.)
-Sex
-Loyalty and security (especially during times of financial or other difficulty, though you might get dumped during financial hard times)

Homekeeping and work may be inversely proportional. If she works, then you should have a maid, though she should manage the maid if you live in Thailand.

When It Fails

The usual woman's story is that her boyfriend/husband is a "butterfly" ("chao-choo") and that's why it failed. Blame the man. Save her own face. In Thailand, saving face is very important, and even if she's not telling the whole story, maybe it's better to accept being as the scapegoat and moving on. To do otherwise, and make her lose face, may be dangerous.
However, the question is this: If the man is a butterfly, then why? Is it his fault or her fault for him being unfaithful?

Maybe he's a stupid man who just goes after young, pretty, sexy girls with little value for other traits. If so, then why does he want a girlfriend, as valuing sexual variety is incompatible with having a girlfriend. She's also made a mistake in choice of mate. Notably, I don't think that all the sex entertainment is too much of a temptation for a marriage, as a man really doesn't get quality fulfillment from entertainment girls, and if he desires to partake, he really shouldn't take them seriously, either, just a ****-and-forget fling for a couple of hours or so, and he's stupid if he's not discreet enough.

However, when it comes to a serious relationship on the side, often it's her fault for not earning her mate's loyalty.

Here is a common experience in Thailand: A man meets a lady. He gets serious because she expresses that she has common interests. He tries her out for a partner in life's daily things, and she gets an opportunity. What happens?

Once she thinks she's "got him" (after the first few weeks, maybe a month or so), she expects him to take care of her, while she does less and less to take care of him ... or herself. She sits around watching TV, yacking on the phone with friends, and reading trash magazines. On Internet, she doesn't do valuable things but wastes time on surfing elsewhere, e-mail with worthless friends and chat. Trivial fun is fine, and everyone does it themself just like everyone else. But not all the time. It must be mixed with worthwhile, fulfilling activities.

Daily life changes. The man has to take the initiative on things to do together, much moreso than her. After the first few weeks, he starts doing the following more often than her: Cooking for the two of them. Cleaning the dishes and the place. Remembering the deadlines for getting the trash out to the street. Taking care of the accounting and bills. Working (if she works for him), making most of the decisions, taking the initiatives, and then quality control of her half-careless work. What's happening is she's starting to rely on him to "take care" of her, excessively, while she slips on taking care of him.

He hires a maid, and that further promotes laziness while taking away a test of the strength of her caring. (However, if she works a job, then you should hire a maid rather than make her come home and work a second job.)

After all that, if he gets irritated, she will shape up ... for a day or two. Then back to the old ways. Sometimes she will say she loves him. He will ask her why. What does she love in him? The usual answer is that she doesn't know, she just does. He will tell her to show her. Talk is easy. No, not just a temporary physical expression.

As a farang in Thailand, I often help Thais in farang matters (carefully explaining things, translating, showing things), and ask those who I help to in turn help me out on occasion. Some do, and others find excuses not to. (Same when I help farangs.) I find the same things happen to many men in relationships with Thai women -- they help the woman more than vice versa.

I believe that this is not a general trait of Thai ladies. I just think that Thai ladies who are looking for a man mainly for financial support, security, material things and an exciting lifestyle tend to seek out foreign men.
When you analyze the relationship, there is little in regard to similar values and interests. That's why it fails.

What usually happens is that the two people get bored with each other. She sticks around for financial support. He keeps her around for convenience. But temptations pull on both of them.
One finds an alternative mate before the other and leaves. It's always easier to be the dumper than the dumpee, despite the low quality of the relationship.

Sometimes, it reaches the breaking point before the man strays. This happens when they request for him to do some things which require considerable expenditure of effort, time, and/or money, whereas they don't do the things he requests of them. After pointing this out, they will usually try to make up by smiling and being sweet. This makes some men really turn their view towards a smile and sweetness as an ugly smile and sweetness -- tricky.

I see too many farang friends who support their gold-digging Thai girlfriends and wives for neurotic reasons, in my opinion. The unstable relationships seem to outnumber the solid ones.

Suggestions

If you wish to avoid gold diggers, then do not shower Thai ladies with money and take care of them to where they can be lazy. That's really asking for it.

Suggestion #1: If she helps you, then help her.

If a lady helps herself and tries to improve her life, then it's good pay for her higher education, but only if she's a good student, really. Same with business. But only help people who wish to improve their life, really, and who help you improve yours. It's a two-way dynamic, both spiritually and in terms of local business/support responsibility.

Suggestion #2: Consider whether you care about your respectability in Thai society.
If you are going to circulate within the higher class Thai community, and bring your Thai girlfriend or wife, then you must have a middle to high class Thai girlfriend. Thais are much more class sensitive than farangs. The minimum would be a Thai girlfriend with 12 years education. University studies or degree would be better, and/or good business job experience. If you don't fulfill these requirements, then your business and Thai social life may fail, too.

Suggestion #3: How important is beauty in your wish list of traits in a lady?
The pretty ladies tend to be the worst. Not all, but many. Life has been easy for them, as people have treated them favorably over others. They are often spoiled. In a way, beauty can be a curse in that beautiful people have a lot of external influences and many don't learn to develop themselves internally -- "make themselves" -- in substantive ways. (When they get older, past their youthful beautiness, their happiness often goes down. They experience transient rather than substantive fulfillment in life. Beauty is superficial. Doors will be opened in their young life, but in life, the most important doors you must find yourself, with your own effort.)

A pretty, "trophy wife" can have a lot of drawbacks.

Suggestion #4: Assess her money needs, and decide whether you are willing to fulfill them.
After pretty spoiled women, next on my danger list is accountants. Again, most, not all. They tend to be materialistic and very money conscious, and thus look to milk a man and push him to work harder to make more money. I'm not a very materialistic person, and I value my free time, so accountants are not for me. However, they are a good match for other men. And some are great for family businesses. I don't want to berate all accountants because I know some real good ladies who are responsible and highly competent businesspeople, as well as great wives. However, I know a larger number of gold-diggers who push men for all they can get and just seem lacking in other qualities.

Suggestion #5: Have they matured enough for you?

University students sometimes see a guy as a sugar daddy, a substitute for their father taking care of them. They sometimes haven't been on their own long enough (if at all) and sometimes lack some of the important elements of maturity. The main attraction of some university students are intellectual vitality and an open-ended career path. They aren't as locked into many older peoples' habits of thought, and tend to be a little more open-minded. Some university students come from poor backgrounds, and the need for financial support from a farang boyfriend vs. their poor family is understandable. However, the relationship should be more expansive than just sugar daddy support.

I've hired university students to do work for me. University students often work at low paying, parttime jobs, and this job experience has little or no educational benefit. I have offered work at better hourly rates, work which is more meaningful experience for them in the business world, and which allows them more flexibility in their study schedule. This work usually consists of things such as web research (finding information on the web), English-Thai translation (which helps them improve their English as well as learn what they're translating), phone calls (e.g., marketing) where they meet and discuss business matters with entrepreneurs, and errands around town. They're inexperienced, but if they're willing to learn, then it can be a good professional relationship.

Sometimes, a university student worker has become a girlfriend. This has usually been a mistake. If a worker starts moving into girlfriend status, the quantity and quality of work usually goes down, not up. A little neglect is something I'll jokingly let slide, but a pattern of gross neglect results in getting "fired" as girlfriend, too. I will offer opportunities, but not a free ride. Blow it, and they're back to 250/day (or less) parttime work elsewhere. Sex does not substitute for meaningful work and progress. (At least, not for me.)

I've also befriended ladies who work at other low paid jobs, from 4000 to 10,000 baht per month, typically girls with 12 years (high school) education who can read/write English and sometimes a little college before financial realities stopped them, or so they say. These girls often work 60 hour weeks for poor wages, but see no way up (and usually haven't started their own business...). I've sometimes tried to help them by hiring them, figuring that they were used to hard work of 60 hours/week at low pay. I was giving them a raise in pay and a cut in hours, and thought they'd appreciate what I was doing and work hard to do quality work for me. The results have usually been poor in more ways than one. Even worse, some have become girlfriends briefly, and in these cases they have seemed to expect me to take care of them, and their motivation to work and learn and do the basics went down, as if sex could substitute, just like the above. It can get unacceptably low in a surprisingly short time after becoming girlfriend. Likewise, I've sent some to computer school so they can do the basics. But some who flirted more were also the poorer performers in school. Expect them to possibly drop out if you take them in as a girlfriend.

After a very few such experiences, I can only recommend that you be very careful who you try to help, and don't expect a "company girlfriend" relationship to help in terms of work. Sometimes it will help, if she likes to help you, but don't fall for those who see sex as a substitute for work.

In general, do not mix work and personal relationships. A flirt can be a bad sign. I'm absolutely sure there are good exceptions to this rule and my experiences above, but I would bet that more people have had experiences like mine above than have had a girlfriend become more motivated to help your business succeed. So, in general, "Don't fish at the company pier."
Don't feel sorry for everyone in a rote, low paying job. If they're not working hard in rote jobs, then they will be watching TV, so their purpose in life is rote jobs for the economy. There's usually a reason they're in a rote job -- they didn't have initiative elsewhere. Maybe rote jobs just dull people out, and once they're out of school and into a rote job, they're in a rut. At first, I thought that you either get them while they're still a student, or else it's too late. However, my experience with students hasn't been much better.

Another category of ladies, bargirls and freelancers (including disguised prostitutes), is something I'm not going to discuss in this section. They are almost always bad news. The very low education is a minor issue compared to their relationship personality. This is all discussed in another section of this website.

The best kind of girlfriend to date seems to be those who have successfully completed a university degree and who have professional experience in a company. They tend to be more consistent about self-discipline, and are more mature, than all other categories. They've passed the cut. They're proven. When you develop a relationship with them, they usually won't kick back on the couch and watch TV all day.

From that subset, it's a matter of finding common values and interests.
You're unlikely to make anyone into anything. It's a much better bet to find someone who already is what you'd like. Devise a strategy on how to meet what you like.

How To Make It Successful

The most important step, by far, is proper choice of woman. You shouldn't try to take someone and change them. You should find someone who already has the trait you like.

[This section has yet to be completed, mainly Thai cultural things regarding culture, extended families, protocols, marriage, respect, etc.]

Thai Girlfriends

Thai Girlfriends

In approaching this topic for the largest audience, I first have to briefly cover some general issues and paint an overview before going in depth on particular topics and issues. This section covers things ranging from the extremes of extrinsic "Thai prostitution" vs. intrinsic love relationships. It covers things in-between. It includes the issue of what is called "matrimonial prostitution" for relationships in the West of essentially the same kind under disguise (i.e., marry a rich guy so the woman can work less on her life).

However, emphasis is on the ordinary cultural ways, for those who really want to explore a different kind of culture, and possibly develop a meaningful relationship with a mainstream Thai lady.

Here are some things you should know and consider first. Some of this also applies to relationships in general, outside of Thailand.

The author of this article has much more experienced with mainstream Thai culture than with the foreigner-oriented, prostitution-common areas, though I'm quite experienced in both, with quite a large number of my own experiences of various sorts. However, compared to the vast majority of farangs who live in Thailand, I'm far more experienced with the mainstream Thai ladies and Thai gentle-men, and can educate and advise other farangs accordingly, providing a greater overall perspective.

In addition to my own experiences since 1994, and those of my friends and associates, I've also run a private investigations business of which relationships are the primary demand -- discreet investigations of Thai girlfriends in Thailand for foreigners overseas, as well as investigating foreign husbands in Thailand for western wives overseas. For more information on that, see www.ThailandPI.com.

IMPORTANT: When you hear of other farangs talking about "Thai girls" in general, more often than not they are usually talking about the select population attracted to the farang prostitution areas and are way offbase when it comes to ordinary Thai ladies, so don't believe everything you hear... e.g., "Thai girls are unfaithful", or "Thai girls just want your money". Substitute the word "prostitute" for "girl" in those sentences and it makes more sense. If you're old enough to read this, and sophisticated enough to use Internet well, then you should be old enough to not believe everything you hear and read about Thai ladies and smart enough to think by yourself...

Likewise, it is incorrect to assume that all Thai ladies who have met a foreign man in the nightlife areas and developed a special relationship are tricking or unfaithful to the new boyfriend. It is true that most Thai nightlife ladies we investigate are unfaithful to or otherwise tricking the foreign boyfriend, but many are not. Many ladies in the nightlife area come to the point where they've experienced enough, and are ready to settle down into a more normal and stable lifestyle. Unfortunately, they are a minority in the nightlife areas.

Most foreigners who visit or live in Thailand spend most of their time in the tiny percentage of the country which farang-oriented prostitutes are attracted to, a naturally select population. But many do not. From my viewpoint, those steeped in the farang prostitution areas are best staying in these areas, and going thru the shorttime adventures with bargirls and freelancers ad infinitum, and persisting in their cynical illusions of denial, because these farangs would not be happy with a mainstream Thai girl for very long, and neither would a mainstream Thai lady be happy with them. If you pursue a mainstream Thai lady, then you should be as faithful to her as she is to you. Otherwise, you will have fewer problems sticking to the other side of town, because prostitutes are used to providing service and then making a break after receiving the money, so it stays simple and clean (bullshit aside).

Indeed, most farang males who work in offices take little interest in co-workers, and spend much more time at pubs with their friends and developing mutual flash-in-the-pan relationships with the outgoing and skilled Thai ladies of entertainment venues, because there are so many lovely ladies among them who are easy to chat up, outgoing and willing to move into a sexual liaison in very short time when an opportunity comes within range, especially if the man fits certain criteria such as being dressed as if they have money, clean, cheerful and easygoing.
Do not treat your coworkers or employees as if they are similar to bargirls. Just like in your own country, Thailand has different kinds of people in different walks of life.

The prostitutes are far more willing with sex, you don't waste much time getting them there, they don't give you problems when you've had enough of them and pay them off (quite unlike a normal lady), and there are a variety of other lovely beauties out there for your next adventure. For what you pay per night, it's pretty cheap when compared to the real costs (both time and money) on an alternative, serious relationship, and you avoid the emotional pitfalls of something more serious. Even if you keep a prostitute for a few days or weeks and enter a grey area relationship, she'll usually be out of your way with her next distraction -- another farang man in her normal environment...

For those who want a "good" Thai girlfriend, I can advise you about this, but before doing so you'd better think about whether this is really what you want in the long run. "Be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it!"

Once you get a good Thai lady serious about you, especially after physical intimacy, if you change your mind then they will usually be a lot more difficult to break with than a Western lady. They are not like prostitutes who will yell and scream for a few minutes but still leave after you pay them off. You cannot pay off most mainstream Thai ladies. They wouldn't accept it, and they won't give up easily. It may be more traumatic to the average Thai lady than the typical foreign woman.

Relationships consume a lot of time. Businessmen and independent guys often just don't have the time, or don't want the entanglements. For these guys, the occasional weekend outing in the bars and music is a time & cost efficient release.

On the other hand, a good reason to not go with prostitutes is because of sexually transmitted diseases. I just have a feeling of revulsion of "going where so many men have been before" (the antithesis of the Star Trek theme). In fact, going where so many whoremongers have been before, and who knows where those whoremongers have been before they had sex with the particular lady of interest to you! They may be infested with viruses and various kinds of bacteria, only a few of which are symtomatic at first. Be realistic and keep condoms handy, but condoms don't protect you against everything (e.g., herpes, or genital warts, or molluscum, all of which are extremely common here).

There are some very pleasant and lovely bargirls and freelance prostitutes out there. However, that environment in general can be irritating, as there are just too many loud, hardened and insensitive prostitutes all around -- crude with low intellectual class and a "don't give a s**t" attitude. Mercenary commercial. In cruising with friends, I can go a whole night without seeing anything I'd take, even if they were paying me!

I'm usually the odd one in the group, and not your ordinary farang in Thailand. I'd rather go home to a nice home environment with good books, serious Internet research on life and future matters, and a lovely romance. Finding the right kind of Thai lady who is compatible with me has not been easy. Too many Thai ladies seem to be looking for the kinds of farangs they see in TV commercials and movies, and sometimes I've felt like "the farang entertainment center". Others just don't have the kind of philosophical outlook on life, meaningful interests, and language skills.

There aren't many non-Thai ladies here. Nearly all the foreign ladies you will meet here are wives of an expat, and the selection among the rest is slim pickins. Sometimes it had made me want to jump on an airplane to the next likely oasis, e.g., Australia or India. (I believe there's just too much materialistic expectation and homogenization most everywhere else.)

If you like partying and excitement, then the bars in Bangkok are some of the best in the world. For me, they were at first interesting to experience, and the music at some is always good.
It doesn't take long to get to understand the scene. It doesn't have much appeal to me as a rather studious expat, and the music and friends are the main draw.

I should make clear that I don't want to imply that all Thai prostitutes are trouble or all "ordinary" Thai girls are true-hearted. There are gold diggers everywhere. You have to ask why a girl is attracted to a relationship with you, a foreigner, especially if she is quick to it. It is my experience that most ordinary Thai girls are not after my money (and don't take any), but I am picky and patient. Your mileage may vary. A sizeable percentage of non-prostitutes are attracted largely to the farang's money and material wellbeing, and/or some Hollywood-based illusion they may have of life in a farang's country. They may simply look to a farang to take care of them, everything, whereby they'd "have it made in life". Matrimonial prostitution (though they don't see it that way).

Notably, I usually don't make introductions and wouldn't be seen with many of the farangs who have expressed wanting a good Thai girlfriend (often in a fleeting moment of frustration over the behavior of a prostitute girlfriend they've become emotionally attached to), because I don't think those farangs really understand what they're getting into when it comes to good Thai ladies, would be unlikely to develop or enjoy such a relationship due to inability or unwillingness to adapt culturally (as well as the Thai lady's inability or unwillingness in many cases, too), and/or would be unfaithful to the good Thai girl which in many cases is damaging to her reputation and sometimes her life (e.g., offspring abandoned by the farang). In any introduction, I take no responsibility for anything. Use at your own risk.

Nevertheless, I sometimes do bring farangs into my realm to hang out with, sometimes deeply. Then, whatever happens, happens

Before a farang even considers a "good" Thai girlfriend, he should consider the ramifications. He will have to give up the bargirl adventures in his life. (Some women put up with their boyfriend engaging in shorttime liassons behind their back as long as they come home on time every night, but it's not true that this is generally accepted in higher class Thai society. MOST Thai ladies do NOT tolerate this.) If he changes his heart and mind about his current girlfriend, he won't be able to dispose of his good Thai girlfriend cleanly with a 1000 baht note. He won't be able to get into her pants on the first night, and probably not the first few nights. Whenever he gets that far, then when he does get to her panties, she will usually be shy (depending upon the friendship trust and art), and it won't be the same kind of experience as with a prostitute, for better or for worse.

In my opinion, quality beats quantity. Of course, just my opinion, different strokes for different folks.
A lot of guys on the internet have stated that they've become less sensitive and more hardened by spending too much time in the bars. I would suggest to these people that they try a courting kind of relationship over time. Your mileage may differ, but none of my one night stands have come close to any of my courting relationships.

Most guys who are attracted to Thai ladies more than western ones are attracted to the lovely, native, freely natural feminine ways of Thai ladies. The mainstream ones will be loyal, most of them will spend money wisely and prudently, and will be more responsible with maintaining a nice home and helping out with work. Mainstream Thai ladies will not push you to be ambitious but will value "peace, love and harmony" moreso (as most Thais value harmony more than ambition if the latter means conflicts), but they won't have much initiative, as they will tend to seek out a relaxed and peaceful environment with family and friends. It may take a long time before you will find an ambitious and intellectual Thai lady if that's what you're looking for. They are Thai. Nonetheless, they do exist in large numbers here.

If you are fast paced, always moving forward, and expect everything done right the first time, then you're probably headed for frustration with Thai women, and Thais in general. However, if you live a relaxed and peaceful lifestyle, then you'll be at home here.

Exceptions are the "Chinese Thais", specifically those who are 100% of Chinese descent but whose parents were both from immigrant families from China. Most of the offspring of these people are melting pot Thai in disposition, but many are hardworking Chinese. Most of the Chinese who came to Thailand didn't survive from a natural selection viewpoint family-wise, so the current generation of successful immigrant family-descended Chinese Thais have a fairly exceptional subcultural background. You have a wide range or personalities to choose from among the Chinese Thais, but you'll find that a larger percentage of them have ambitions and value education more. Some are a nice blend, the best of both worlds.

At the other extreme are the Thai country girls who recently moved to Bangkok (or maybe you meet them in the country), most of whom have no ambition but all of the native feminity.
There is quite a variety of Thai ladies. However, of notable mention are some of those you can meet in Internet dating services. Many of these ladies want to be westernized. If that's what you want, fine. However, why come to Thailand for a westernized girl? If you like Thai ladies, then you must like the Thai way, in whole or in part. Otherwise, neither the Thai lady nor yourself will be happy for long in the relationship. Of course, there are many ladies in Internet dating services who will be themselves, and that's good. Just a warning about what naturally works for more than a few months...

In Thailand, there aren't many inventors, social leaders or creators of evolutionary progress in our generation, even among the men, on a per capita basis compared to the west. What was invented in Thailand? What was copied from the West?

The beauty of Thailand, in my opinion, it that it's a very different culture than the west or the rest of Asia or anywhere in the 21st (or 20th) century, it's peaceful and harmonious, the people smile (even those in poverty by western standards) -- hence the name "Land of Smiles". It has a native human ambiance that has long since been lost elsewhere in the world due to the Industrial Revolution or colonization or overpopulation and abject poverty.
The beauty of the ladies is due to the Thai value system, which is very different from the West, for better and for worse. There is a lot one can learn about happiness from one of the most civil civilizations left on the planet, including from a Thai mate, be it a prostitute or, if you fit certain criteria to some degrees or others, a mainstream lady. (Be a leader sometimes, a follower sometimes...)

What I try to do here is lay out the cultural landscape so that you approach it with a more complete understanding of the differences in culture and protocols, lay down some tools for you to use if you are willing and able, and let you decide on your own what segment(s) of the population you may wish to explore.

In discussing Thai ladies, I cover the range from mainstream to the prostitute girls, pretty much the entire spectrum as best the experiences of myself and the contributors can fathom. All Thai ladies have more in common than they have differences. The differences are mainly in regard to serious relationships.

Of course, there are always a diversity of exceptions, and the younger generation is bringing some changes, though no radical changes which I can see in the general population as of the time of this writing.

Courting in Thailand also has a lot of the same environmental elements as elsewhere in the world, ranging from gold-digger "matrimonial prostitutes" (materialistic ladies who look at potential boyfriends for their extrinsic elements more than their intrinsic qualities), to serious girls looking for the one and only Prince Charming with overly romantic fantasies which simply cannot be satisfied. Hollywood is not Reality. In-between, there are lots of free adventurers who juggle several boyfriends to learn life to some kind of measure.

In general, most Thai women marry for love, not for money, and are entirely faithful and committed to their husband or longtime boyfriend. However, they tend to look for Thai guys, and the sort who are attracted to foreigners are usually a different breed of Thai lady.

Of the prostitutes who marry, most do it for the money (obviously), or a mix of money and a kind of love. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, but we shouldn't let ourselves be blinded by love to the extent that we don't realize what's obvious to others. Most marriages to prostitutes don't last long, but there are in fact many good marriages, albeit a small percentage.

Thai Girlfriends - [Ex-] Prostitutes

Prostitutes are a very tiny percentage of the population of Thai women, but are often the vast majority of the Thai women that individual western men know, and the foreigner areas of Thailand tend to have an amazingly high population density of them. Travelling into those parts of town is like travelling into a subculture.

The large number of farangs with Thai girlfriends and wives taken from freelance prostitution pickup places and outright go-go bars is mainly due to the fact that it's much quicker and easier to develop a full blown relationship with a prostitute and there are lots and lots of beautiful, lovely and outgoing farang-oriented prostitutes in the farang parts of the city. Years of observation have shown it's too easy for a farang to become involved with a Thai prostitute of one kind or another.

From my observations, most such relationships don't work out well in the end, for various reasons, especially compared to relationships with non-prostitutes. There are many exceptions, however. Analyzing the successes and failures of such relationships turns up one most common and simple factor in determining the success and failure of relationships with [ex-]prostitutes -- how long the female was engaged in prostitution in any form before meeting her boyfriend. After that, the second most important factor is in regard to expectations, understanding each others' limits, and general cultural and relationship issues, as discussed in both of my longer discourses on "bargirl and freelancer girlfriends" and "mainstream Thai girlfriends", and accepting those differences rather than trying to change the other person very much.

Thailand is well known for prostitution even though it's a very small element of Thailand -- it's blown way out of proportion as regards foreign views of Thailand on average. Prostitution is common around Asia, not just in Thailand. In fact, according to international human rights reports, prostitution in Thailand ranks far behind Taiwan, the Philippines and India in per capita sex workers. The reasons that Thailand is particularly well known for it are due to the somewhat different nature of prostitution in Thailand, from my observations:

1. Many of the ladies in prostitution here are lovely in a "native" cultural way and don't fit into the usual mold of prostitutes in other countries -- it has a different manifestation here. This, combined with other Thai traits, often results in misunderstandings by foreigners. Indeed, many foreigners don't call this prostitution, and many Thai ladies also call this "working with guests" or "working nighttime" and would not use the Thai word for prostitution because that's impolite and demeaning. (But if money changes hands for daily service, then yes, it's prostitution, by my definition!)

2. The prostituion districts in Thailand are safe and laid back (with few exceptions), thereby attracting men who want a sex holiday without dangers (relative to similar places overseas).

3.
The price is low, both for the ladies and accomodation & general expenses here, which attracts many holidayers who want more bang for their buck.

Farangs take on Thai prostitutes as girlfriends and wives far more commonly than they take on prostitutes in other countries.

However, if you are even considering having a prostitute as a girlfriend in a committed relationship, then you'd better read the synopsis of facts from outside sources and the perspectives of the author on prostitution in Thailand, in addition to the following continuation of this discussion.

Main Differences from Western Prostitutes

Thailand is a Buddhist culture. There's an entire section on this web site on Buddhism and Thai animism. Thai prostitutes are usually not rebels. Prostitution is not taboo here and does not require an individual to be a radical. While they may hedge on some of the principles of Buddhism (whether they fully realize it or not), in general you're dealing with the same cultural personality. Most prostitutes wie to Buddha statues, wear Buddhist emulets and conform to Buddhist principles in nearly every way except engaging in sexual defilements.

However, in the population of prostitutes as a whole, you will find that there is a larger percentage of women who will stray from the core culture in the following ways:

-self-control, self-discipline
-spending money
-loyalty
-honesty

Farang-oriented prostitutes are often more honest than their farang partners, except when it comes to other clients and boyfriends (and still often are honest until they get hostile reactions). Most will not steal. Most don't smoke, drink or do drugs, and they do frown upon those who do those particular vices. Most bring their earnings back to their parents and siblings.

However, among the subpopulation of prostitutes, you will find many who are compulsive gamblers, drinkers, and addicts of various sorts, are deceitful, who have abandoned children, and who even drug their clients so that they can steal everything in their hotel room or home. And spend money like crazy.

Thai Girlfriends - Ordinary Ladies

In mainstream Thai culture, the vast majority of the Thai ladies are monogomous, usually virgins when you meet single ladies (much more so than in the west), and typically lovlier than the ladies in the prostitution areas (as well as the west on average). If what you want is a naturally feminine, affectionate and loyal lady, then Thai ladies are among the best in the world. However, if you're into intellectually expansive relationships with the opposite gender, then you're going to be challenged to find and develop such a relationship here. On all accounts, the best things in life take time.

If you are interested in developing a monogamous relationship with a Thai girlfriend (whereby monogamy goes both ways), then you should read my writings on good Thai girlfriends, in addition to the following usual problems.

If Good Thai Women Don't Take Interest in You

It's common for friends and associates to complain with frustration that good Thai girls don't take interest in them. Here is my collection of things to consider and suggestions:

-Thai ladies are usually shy and will have to know you over time before they will become what you may consider a girlfriend.

-Thais are very sensitive to things that may affect their reputation and status, and are cautious.

-Most good Thai girls are virgins or have had very few and discrete sexual experiences with very few boyfriends they knew over time.

-Outside the farang areas, you are moreso an alien farang and may be considered a typical prostitute-oriented farang until you prove otherwise.

-Dress nicely. Thais are more sensitive to dress, cleanliness and appearance than foreigners

-Learn about the Thai values of maintaining your cool and controlling your temper at all times, being polite and respectful (which is how you project yourself as respectable), and being easygoing and nonthreatening.

-Thais are very sensitive to body language. As applies to Hollywood, "Bad actors act, good actors are", i.e., don't just act a certain way, be that way.

-Don't be too much on the hunt. Whether at the workplace or in an entertainment area, don't look at too many girls with interest. Most girls don't want a playboy.

-Smile. This is the Land of Smiles. Again, "bad actors act, good actors are". Think pleasant thoughts where you're genuinely smiling to yourself before you walk into a social environment. This is Thailand, and if you want the Thais to like you, then you need to be easygoing and have a good kind of smile on your face.

Of course, many of the things I recommend for Thailand are true most everywhere in the world, each to varying degrees. Thais are a sensitive and gentle people, and some of these elements of human nature carry more momentum in Thailand.

Some things that work well in other cultures are counterproductive in Thailand among good girls:

-Being too assertive
-Machismo
-Straight talk when there are gentler alternative ways to say the same thing

In a work environment, you will get to be known over time, and this will affect not only what secretaries (and their friends that they bring to social events) will become available to you, but also which subordinate employees will stick to their jobs, how well they will work for you, and indeed may affect whether you keep your job.

Never make a Thai lose face. If you have a criticism, keep it private, do not display it in public. When you do criticize, raise the issues gently and gradually. There are many ways to communicate the same thing, and if you choose the more sophisticated and diplomatic way, the results will be much better. (Venting steam for your own satisfaction is dumb.) If you make Thais fear you, then you can't expect any of them to like you in an amorous way. If you introduce an explosive and unpredictable nature over time, what result do you think that will produce? On the other hand, if you show self-control when under pressure and during the bad times, that will be reassuring.

The power of money does not produce the same results in the office as it does in the massage joints and in many western environments with "matrimonial prostitution".

Thai People

Thai People

There have been books written about Thai people and how to deal with them in personal and business realms. In this article, I will keep it to just a few pages.

Of course, not all Thai people are the same, so it would be nonsense to say that all Thai people are one way or another. In this article I describe the average or typical Thai person, and the tendencies of the culture relative to others in the world. Nonetheless, there are always exceptions and all sorts.

There are variations in Thai culture depending on where you are -- in a suburban community vs. in an expat go-go bar, in an office, in the country, and which region of Thailand. The variations are not great, except if you go to the go-go bars (where they tend to be quite crude, aggressive, mercenary, selfish, and greedy, albeit less than equivalent places in other countries, so I hear).

The values and traits of Thai people include these:

-Relaxed, not in a hurry about anything, cannot be hurried
-Polite interaction, pleasant
-Family, friends, community and good food are most important
-Be happy, have fun ("sanuk")
-Avoid conflict, keep your cool, don't lose your temper
-In case of conflict, stay cool and reasonable, and compromise
-Follow the authority(s)
-Conform fairly well, but tolerate
-Tolerate different kinds of people

Some people think they can come to Thailand and throw money around to get Thai people to do things. Sure, you can find some Thai people like that. However, it will be a much lower percentage than in other countries, and the results may not be the same.

Forcefulness and ruling by fear have even less longterm results than in other parts of the world. Notably, Thais are very good at cooperating with each other to cover up things from the boss and avoiding confrontation.

Thais don't tend to be self-starters or very creative people (except at humorous things). There aren't many inventions in the world from Thailand. While some products are improved here, many others are just made more cheaply which includes cutting corners on quality.

Discipline must be maintained in a workplace. What tends to work best is constant auditing whereby they know they are being audited, and a little bit of fear of the big boss. Not too much fear or they will go crazy and leave, but not too much fear or "when the cat's away, the mice will play". Be firm, yet polite. To be respectable, you should be respectful.

If confrontation is necessary, it is extremely important to do it in private, not in front of other people. Thais are much more sensitive to "Saving face", which is much more important in Thai culture than in European descended cultures.

If you learn the language, then you will learn the "polite particles" in the Thai language for which no equivalent exists in Western society. (Learning the Thai language and customs is a good way to learn the culture.)

Thai culture is fairly homogenous, compared to many other countries and regions of the world. It is remarkable that the Thai language is the native language of the indigenous people over such a large country, approximately 1500 km by 500 km. (In fact, the Lao (Laos) language is very similar to the Thai language, using essentially the same written characters and most of the same words. The Thai language also extends into the southernmost edge of China.)

The "religion" is Buddhism (and there has never been a war or fighting over Buddhism), which over 90% of Thais call themselves. The main exception is the small southernmost provinces bordering Malaysia which are predominantly Muslim.

The homogeneity of Thailand's culture and language has contributed to the peaceful and smooth nature of Thai people.

Thai Names

Thais are given a nickname by their family at a very young age, and this is what family, friends, and familiar associates call each other. This name is NOT a legal name, and does not exist anywhere in legal paperwork.

Thais are given a legal first name and surname at birth, but no middle name. When you first know a Thai person in an office or other fairly formal setting, then you address them as Khun [Firstname]. Later, this may switch to their nickname.

However, in very informal settings, Thai people will introduce themselves by their nickname only, and you may never know their real name unless you ask.

The nicknames are usually one syllable words though some are two syllable and sometimes three. Their translations mean silly things like "shrimp", "baby chicken", "eyes", "gift", and lots of other things.

Regional Differences

There are some slight regional differences between Thai people as they see each other.
Thais from the northwest are seen as the most compassionate and peaceloving.

Thais from the northeast are the poorest on average, and tend to be the most resilient as well as the best labor pool for unpleasant jobs. Many Thais in the northeast are a merge between Thai and Lao (Laotian) culture, and in fact a lot of Lao words are spoken within Thai sentences there.
Thais from the south (down the western peninsula) tend to be more independent minded and a little bit more assertive. This is a long coastline and you can see in their features that there is a lot of immigrant blood in them. Similar things can be said about parts of the southeast, but the southeast is a small part of the population.

Bangkok is populated mostly by people from all over Thailand who came to Bangkok for work or higher education.

In the big city of Bangkok, Thais tend to be much less community oriented, like people in any big city in the world. There is a stark difference between city people and country people in Thailand.

Chinese Thais

There have been many Chinese immigrants over the past few hundred years. Many Thai families have Chinese blood in them. In most of them, you cannot see any cultural difference; nonetheless, in MANY partly or wholly "Chinese Thai" families there is a MAJOR difference between them and mainstream Thais.

Most Chinese came to Thailand due to crop failures in China or just looking for better opportunities overseas, and so many arrived destitute. Most of the immigrants actually didn't leave offspring, but many did survive and thrive here based on sheer effort and smarts.

A large subset of Chinese immigrants have created descendants instilled with a strong work ethic and who value education. When you look at the top people in the banks, business, and society, you will see a disproportionate percentage of Chinese Thais.
It is a nice blend of work ethic, education, and pleasant Thai ways

There are some interesting studies about why Thailand has achieved a relatively high per capita income for the Asian region, and modernity with good infrastructure, compared to other countries, despite the fact that Thailand was the only country in the region never colonized.
One of the most interesting analyses is that it's because the Thai people were much more tolerant of immigrants, and readily assimilated them into Thai society, rather than the usual tribal ways of bigotry, xenophobia, resistance and overly nationalistic laws against immigrants. The old Thai kings especially fostered the assimilation of immigrants.

(Of course, the United States did likewise in the 1700s. Also, 2500 years ago, Rome was originally a low class poor town in Italy, but was known as the most tolerant and hospitable town for immigrants.)

This hospitality extends into the present time, which is a major reason why Thailand is a favored destination for tourists and businesspeople alike. Including myself, who has travelled around Asia and settled down in Thailand!

General Visa Information

General Visa Information

This section covers the different kinds of entry visa, how to renew visas, tips and related matters. Visa regulations are subject to change (though usually minor changes), and you should check with a Thai consulate or embassy in your country, or the Immigration Dept. in Bangkok (see the map at the bottom of this page), or a good lawyer regarding any and all of the following.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs website at http://www.mfa.go.th/ is the best place to start on the web for current information. Their Consulates subpage has information on passport visas, but I suggest you call your particular consulate first and verify because I've found that this information sometimes changes without notice. Their Diplomatic Missions Abroad subpage has a list of embassies and consulates around the world, most of which have their own separate websites. Here is a shortcut to the embassies and consulates abroad.

This section does not cover getting a visa for your Thai girlfriend to visit your country. That's a matter between you and your own government's embassy or consulate, not an issue with the Thai government (besides your girlfriend getting her Thai passport), and is discussed within the Culture section. Here's a shortcut.

TIPS: If you are travelling to an embassy/consulate to apply for a visa, then:

1. It is strongly recommended that you email to double-check that particular embassy or consulate to verify that the visa section will be open and able to process your visa application on time. Just checking national holidays is not enough! For example, in late April 2007, a guy scheduled a trip to a major Asian business center but received an email from the Thai consulate there stating that "The visa section in [x] will be closed on [Monday] 30 April - [Thursday] 3 May 2007", and Friday the 4th was a national holiday in that country (which they didn't mention). The second embassy checked, in a capital city, was closed 3 days the next week, and specified two working days for a visa, so it would require a stay of more than a week. I've heard similar stories elsewhere.

2. If you have a Thai marriage certificate or other important information, get certified translations before you go to the Thai consulate, because some of them will not accept documents in Thai by themselves! I found out this fact when I visited the Royal Thai Consulate-General in [US city]. Nobody there could read Thai, and they initially tried to reject my application.

3. Some Thai consulates have wrong (and blank) information on their websites. In fact, the one and only email address listed for some of the consulates doesn't work (user address discontinued), and there have been replies with another, non-working email address (misconfiguration of their email program).

4. At most consulates, applications are accepted only in the morning.

Some of the Thai consulates are very helpful, providing a lot of information, very courteous on the phone, and even asking if you have any more questions! This mainly is in regard to consulates outside Asia, but includes some inside Asia. However, as a general rule, you can expect the consulates outside Asia to be much more helpful than those in Asia, on average.
I'm not talking here of reactions to barflies and backpackers on their umpteenth visa run with no good reason to be in Thailand. These are businesspeople, including exporters from Thailand as they make clear, getting this kind of treatment. I've also seen similar carelessness myself, from having worked on the inside of government organizations, e.g., some of my last US govt work. You have good people and bad people in each of these organizations, usually. Therefore, you should prepare in advance for the worst, while hoping for the best.

--->It is important to stay diplomatic but firm and respectable. For those where email doesn't work, you will usually get a better response over the phone.

However, some consulates just go thru a phase where the staff is hopelessly incompetent at providing decent service, and there's no sense flogging a dead horse, just change your plans to a better part of the world. There are Thai consulates in so many cities with good people.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nationals from 56 countries can enter Thailand for 30 days without a visa, whereby you can get the visa stamped into your passport from an immigration officer at the airport. This is called "visa upon arrival". Nationals of another 76 countries, most of which don't have a Thai consulate, can get a 15-day visa stamp upon arrival. Nationals from Sweden and Korea can get a 90 day visa upon arrival. However, these are supposed to be used for tourists, not people intending to work and/or live in Thailand.

Nationals from countries near Thailand from which many impoverished illegal workers come often have problems (e.g., Bangladesh, India). Immigration officers have the power to deny a visa, including a visa on arrival at the airport (whereby you could be put on the next plane going back with available seating), so if there's any doubt, get a visa before you come, and check the minimum amount of currency you must have on you (in one form or another) which varies by visa category.

If you plan to be in Thailand longer, then you should bring your passport to the Thai embassy or a Thai consulate nearest you in the country where you are currently residing, and apply for whichever visa is appropriate:

- Tourist visa (90 days) (changed from 60 days starting in October 2006). No special paperwork is needed for westerners from rich countries and those from rich Asian countries.

- Non-immigrant visa (90 days, renewable to 1 year) -- if you plan to do business here, or reside with a spouse, or retire. This requires documentation of your intent, usually a letter from your employer or your spouse's employer, or a marriage certificate with your Thai spouse.

- Type B: If you are coming to Thailand for business, then you apply for a Nonimmigrant B (Business) Visa. This 90 day visa can be extended for up to 1 year (and again for the next year) if you subsequently get a work permit and can show you've been paid the minimum monthly salary (50,000 baht for nationals of most Western countries, less for others, details below).

- Type O: If you have a registered legal marriage to a Thai (or to a foreigner who has a work permit in Thailand), then you apply for a Nonimmigrant O Visa. This 90 day visa can be extended for up to 1 year (and again for the next year) if you can display sufficient funds in a Thai bank savings account (a minimum balance of 400,000 baht over the previous 3 months). You show immigration your bank book, but immigration can also check its list of applicants using its contacts in the banks.

- Type O-A: Retirement Visa (so-called) for those over 50 years old who keep a minimum balance of 800,000 baht in their Thai bank account over the previous 3 months and/or can prove they have a pension or regular income of at least 65,000 baht/month (including a required letter from their embassy about this pension), and wishing to retire in Thailand. If you are relying on the 800,000 baht then you must show it came into Thailand from a foreign country. Sometimes, a combination of the two (bank and pension) is allowed. A medical certificate is no longer required.

You start with a 90 day non-immigrant visa and extend to a year by submitting an application to the Immigration Department near the time your visa will expire. You will normally get a 30 day extension while the application is being considered and processed (assuming it is complete and you meet the requirements), and it may require multiple trips to the immigration department for additional 30 day extensions -- if the one year application has not been approved before your visa expires, then you must make sure to go back and ask the clerk to stamp your passport with another visa extension before your visa expires, which is extended one month at a time so may require more trips. This situation has improved over time so that most people don't need additional 30 day stamps. In fact, many retirement visas have been processed on the same day.

There are a few immigration department branches around Thailand, but most people must go to the branch in Bangkok on soi Suanplu. Which branch you must go to depends upon where in Thailand you live.

- A visa on arrival or transit visa is issued upon arrival in Thailand for those who arrive without a visa, and is similar to a tourist visa except that you get only 30 days, and it requires a ticket for continuing your travels back out of Thailand. (This was mentioned above.) It can be extended for 7 days at the immigration department.

- There is no longer any "investment visa" starting October 2006.

Normally, a visa is valid for one entry and one exit. If you plan to exit and re-enter Thailand within the period of your visa, for example, if you will go do business in India and then return to Thailand, then you may want to apply for a "re-entry permit" along with your visa, so that you don't have to go back to a Thai consulate in India for another visa (requiring two trips, to drop off your passport and pick it up, and you don't have your passport ID on you during the interim). Instead, you go to an immigration department in Thailand, usually the one in Bangkok on soi Suanplu, and get the re-entry permit on the spot in one trip. (It's 500 baht per time, if I recall correctly.) This does not extend the expiration of your visa, but just lets you exit and return without needing a new visa.

There are a few immigration department branches around Thailand, but most people must go to the branch in Bangkok on soi Suanplu. Which branch you must go to depends upon where in Thailand you live.

You can also apply for a "multiple entry" visa when you first apply for your visa in your home country, if you are applying for a nonimmigrant visa. This saves you the trips to the immigration department in Thailand if you are entering and exiting Thailand often on business. However, business people with a 1 year nonimmigrant B multiple entry visa still can't stay in Thailand longer than 90 days per visit unless they extend their visa based on a work permit. It is intended to save people the hassle of multiple embassy/consulate trips per year.

Many people in a multiple entry visa, after 3 months in Thailand without leaving, do a "visa run" to just quickly step over the border and back to get another 90 days. For example, they have just taken a bus (or taxi) to the border with Cambodia or Burma (only certain places where there are immigration officers), exit thru Thai immigration, enter thru Cambodian immigration, turn around and exit thru Cambodian immigration, then enter thru Thai immigration to get a fresh new 90 days, altogether taking less than an hour depending upon the queue.

Again, the multiple entry visa means you don't need to visit either an embassy/consulate nor the immigration department for a year, but you still must exit the country at least every 90 days.

It is difficult to get multiple entry visas from Thai consulates in Asia, as well as nonimmigrant B visas. You can with all your paperwork in perfect status but it is inspected much more closely. It is much easier to get these kinds of visas in your home country.

Without a multiple entry visa, many foreigners who came on tourist visas started making these "visa runs" to the border every 30 days just for a new visa-on-arrival! There are businesses which serve these people, whereby you book your place on a bus or minivan which takes a whole group to the immigration post at the border with Cambodia or Burma or Malaysia. Foreigners have stayed in Thailand for many years by doing the monthly visa runs! However, the Thai government put an end to this starting in October 2006. You will not be allowed to stay in Thailand more than 90 days out of a 6 month period. For example, if you've been in Thailand for 84 days and then come back in again, your visa on arrival will give you only 6 days in Thailand, and after that you cannot enter again until your 6 month period is over.

Malaysia also grants visas upon arrival to passport holders of most countries, whereas Cambodia and Burma have immigration officials at the border who offer quick visas in a few minutes for a small fee. (Laos is a bit different, and that situation is somewhat less official and more fluid, so you may want to get your Laos visa at the Lao embassy in Bangkok, though it will require 2 trips.)

In October 2006, the Thai government changed the rules which impacted people doing "visa runs" based on the 30 day visa-on-arrival loophole. The new rule states that in any 180 day period, you can get only three 30 day visas on arrival. However, at the same time, they increased the tourist visa period to 90 days.

It is not entirely clear what the implications are, as of the time of this writing in October 2006.

Some hopeful people have noted that a foreigner could stay permanently based on a 90 day tourist visa followed by 3 x 30 visas-on-arrival, then another 90 day tourist visa followed by another 3 x 30's, and so on. The problem with this comes after 6 months when it is time to get another tourist visa. All indications are that no other Thai embassy in Asia will grant another tourist visa after seeing all these stamps, and the person must go back to their own country or another distant country to *maybe* get a new tourist visa from the Thai embassy/consulate there. We shall get some feedback on this starting around May 2007.

It has always been more difficult to get visas from Thai embassies and consulates in nearby countries after one's passport shows a history of hanging out in Thailand as a tourist for a long time already (with a few exceptions, but those consulates have also gotten stricter recently), compared to getting visas in one's own country. For example, many consulates in Asia would deny an application for a tourist visa if the applicant had just left Thailand on a tourist visa and was clearly living in Thailand with no legitimate purpose. You could still enter Thailand, but only on a 30 day visa-on-arrival at the Bangkok international airport or the border.

Over the many years before, Thailand was not a strict country as regards people entering the country, but this is starting to change a little.

The Thai economy benefits from tourists spending money here, and the more foreigners who are in Thailand running or helping businesses offer things that tourists want, the better for Thailand. (Also, many bargirls' families upcountry depend on money from tourists and expats, and would be in bad shape without them.)

However, the expressed intent is to discourage undesirable foreigners and their activities, especially those resorting to desperate criminal means to support their lifestyle in Thailand.

The year 2006 has been a year of crackdowns, mostly in reaction to foreign mafias trying to establish themselves in Thailand, and the activities of individual criminals and gangs. First, in May 2006, there was a crackdown on foreigners buying new property based on shell companies they control. In June and July, there were some high profile cases and inspections of government land department offices. Then, in August 2006 there was a crackdown on formation of new shell companies by nominee shareholders (whether or not they were buying property). In October 2006 there is a new fingerprint recording system at the new airport for all arriving foreigners.

The favorite overland route (by far) to a Thai consulate/embassy has been to Penang, Malaysia, near the border with Thailand. (Going to Phnom Penh, Cambodia, is generally done only by airplane.) It has been noted that foreigners coming from Penang by surface transport have been stopped at the border by immigration for in depth inspection even though they have a visa, starting around the beginning of October 2006, and at the time the new rules were announced, it was stated that visitors to Penang were strongly encouraged to fly there.

We won't know for sure until starting around mid-January 2007. However, based on my 12 years of experience in Thailand, I believe that the new laws and regulations will be relaxed for most people, but applied strictly to suspected criminals.

The most common 30-day visa-on-arrival and multiple-entry visa run destinations by bus (because they are cheapest and quickest) have been as follows:

-Cambodia: Aranyaprathet (Poi Pet), Pong Nam Ron, and Pailin
-Burma: Mae Sot (nearest Chiang Mai) or Victoria Point (nearest Phuket)
-Malaysia (only one point, Butterworth)

These are where the visa run companies bring busloads of people. It's usually about 10 to 12 hours round trip from Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, and Chiang Mai. Alternatively, you can just go to the normal bus stations alone and get a ticket to any of those towns. At the destination bus station are usually groups of motorcycles and tuk-tuks whose eyes brighten at the sight of a foreigner and immediately offer to bring you to the border.

Of course, you can always fly anywhere instead of the above.

If you stay beyond the expiration of your visa, then you will be fined when you depart. This is called "overstaying your visa". The fee is 200 baht/day (approx. $5-$6) up to a maximum of 20,000 baht.

It's well known that there are foreigners who overstay their visas instead of doing visa runs, some by a long time and who just pay the 20,000 baht fine when they finally leave. Many have left this way without any hassle except filling out the paperwork and paying the fine at the airport. However, if you are found in Thailand by the authorities with an expired visa, for example in the center of Bangkok, then you can be put in the immigration detention center and held there until you have sufficient funds and a plane ticket out of Thailand. The immigration detention center is a crowded and very uncomfortable and pleasant place, and you may be laying down among some serious criminals. Also, if you overstay a visa, then you will normally be denied another visa until you've left Thailand for a minimum of 90 days. (You can normally still enter Thailand on a visa on arrival for 30 days, though.)

Notably, some people who are new to international travel have accidentally overstayed their visa because they didn't understand that one of the official expiry dates stamped in their passport was not the one to go by. For example, if you go to a Thai consulate or embassy in your country and get a nonimmigrant visa on December 14, 2006, then that visa may have an expiration date of December 13, 2007. This does NOT mean you can enter Thailand and stay until December 13, 2007. This is NOT a 1 year visa. This means you must enter Thailand before December 2007 or else you will need to go get a new visa. If you enter Thailand on March 8, 2007, you will get an entry stamp on another page, and it will have your entry date of 08 MAR 2007 and the new "admitted until" date of 05 JUN 2007. You must ignore the big prominent official visa stamp with an expiry date of DEC 13 2007, and instead follow the simple little entry stamp on another page which includes the little "admitted until 05 JUN 2007". Also, you can extend such a nonimmigrant visa well past the December 13, 2007 date. For example, if you entered on March 8, 2007, then you can extend the visa to March 7, 2008 (and even another year after that) if you never overstay your visa. (Extensions are granted only if you fulfill certain requirements such as work permit, marriage, or retirement, as discussed elsewhere...) Just to be extra clear, note that March 7, 2008, is well past December 13, 2007.

Tip: If you get a multiple entry nonimmigrant visa, you can stretch it to nearly 1 year and 3 months. In the above example, where you first entered on March 8, 2007, then you could go to Malaysia on March 6, 2008, and re-enter Thailand on that same day, March 6, 2008, whereby you would be able to stay in Thailand until June 3, 2008, before you would need to either file official paperwork inside Thailand to extend further or else leave and get a new visa. At least, this is what some people have been able to do in the past. Whether it still works in the future in view of immigration rules changes has yet to be seen, but it seems well worth a try! If the rules do change, then you should get a visa on arrival in the worst case scenario.

A year should be enough time to figure out if you really want to do business in Thailand or retire here -- do the market research, establish the relationships, get enough investors organized, hold the proper promoters meetings, compose the articles of incorporation, etc.

You are not allowed to work in Thailand unless you get a work permit, i.e., you are not allowed to get a salaried or consulting job employed by a company in Thailand. (Of course, you can still work by internet for companies outside Thailand.) You can explore doing business, attend meetings, and many other things without a work permit on a clearly temporary basis as a clearly outside entity with a clearly limited purpose here, but you must know the limits of what you can do. The work permit issue is discussed in the section on Work Permits. You also cannot enter into many kinds of service contracts or own registered property unless you have a work permit, except those married to a Thai and who fulfull certain requirements (though many places sell you things or sign off on service contracts anyway, and the illegality of it is just overlooked as long as nobody objects).

However, I should note that Thailand is not a police state with harsh punishments or penalties, and in fact is a fairly easygoing place businesswise and livingwise. This is why a lot of people do business here and live here. There are not officials going around demanding to see all your papers. In fact, Thailand is generally much more relaxed than most Western countries. However, if you engage in activities which offend others or flagrantly violate the law, then these laws can and often will be used against you. When in Thailand, be like the Thais ... or go elsewhere!

If you plan to travel to another country, you will be happy to find that most countries maintain an embassy or consulate in Bangkok where you can get a visa. The ThailandGuru has a list of embassies and consulates. Many accept visa applications only during morning hours, and give back passports in the afternoon. Some process your passport on the same day, others may require you leave your passport with them several days.

Customs

Thai customs agents at the airport are generally quite reasonable. You won't get hassled over bringing in your valuable personal belongings or business equipment, though you would get stopped if you were carrying in more than one copy of something obviously resellable and valuable, e.g., several Rolex watches or mobile phones or somesuch. The same applies when exiting. When you are bringing in valuable items, you should be careful to declare them so that you avoid potential problems when exiting.

There are no legal limits on how much money you can bring into the country, but there are legal limits on how much you can take out, as covered in the section on money. The laws changed in 1997 due to currency speculators which caused wild fluctuations and instabilities in the value of the Thai baht.

There are few restrictions on what you can bring in or out of the country.

Drugs, guns and pornography are banned, as are certain other things like harpoons for fishing.

Buddha images are controlled, expecially large ones, as are antiques. You need to get a license from an approved national museum to bring many such items out of the country.

If you are moving to Thailand and shipping a large quantity of household goods here, then you need to make sure you get a well connected and reliable shipping agent from door to door. There are many stories of peoples' belongings winding up at the airport terribly damaged, looted, and/or held ransom for ridiculous unofficial customs charges. On the latter, you may be told to wait in a hot warehouse for some time period before an individual with negotiating power will come to negotiate. Getting a reasonable rate may take a long time. Some of the international shippers are listed in the section on Moving, Housing and Regions.

For small shipments, international couriers such as DHL will often hit you up heavily. A guy may come up to your residence or office with a box and paperwork for a large customs fee. You may not be able to recognize if it's official or unofficial. If you want to get the package quickly, then you might have to pay an exhorbitant fee to bypass customs quickly. If you have time, patience and energy, you can wait from a few days to a few weeks or months and get your goods at the official customs rate. I've been charged exhorbitant rates for things like obviously used toys and baby clothes for my daughter from my sister in the U.S.

Those with a work permit may receive their first shipment of personal property duty free. To benefit from this, you should get an experienced entity to deal with all the necessary paperwork and arrangements. Make sure you get all your valuables transferred in this first shipment.

Visa Runs

"Visa run" is a slang term invented by ex-pats which means to exit and re-enter the country in order to renew your visa, usually very near the time that your current visa is about to expire. The most popular places to travel are listed below. Some have a Thai consulate or embassy which can issue you a new tourist or nonimmigrant visa into Thailand. Others are simply border posts with an immigration station where you can get a 30-day visa-on-arrival, or else a 90 day re-entry visa for those on a nonimmigrant business multiple entry visa.

Penang, Malaysia

The most common place to go for a Thai consulate is Penang, Malaysia, a fairly nice, very modern, and inexpensive (for the seasoned traveller) island in the Andaman Sea near the Thai border, and where the Thai consulate is accustomed to processing a lot of nonimmigrant and tourist visa applications. Westerners can travel to Malaysia without needing to get any visa from the Malay embassy.

Unlike the other bordering countries, Malaysia is very modern, and there are many foreign businesspeople there.

Penang is relatively safe, peaceful and modern. The island is half natural beauty with a few decent beaches hidden away, and half industrial. The vast majority of Malaysia's computer electronics industry is in Penang, where you'll find major American and other manufacturers (e.g., Intel, AMD, National Semiconductor, etc., etc.). Penang is populated by nearly 50% old Chinese immigrants, and most of the rest is Malays and Indians. English is universally spoken, unlike in Thailand. The national language is Malay, which is a romanized (A-Z spelling) written language. You will find English fluency to be very good down to the street vendors and samlor pedal-drivers.

Some people take the 24-hour train ride down the Thai peninsula in order to save a little money (air conditioned sleeper coach), going thru immigration at the border, and exiting the train at Butterworth where you can take a ferry or a bus over the bridge to Penang. However, with the increase in terrorist violence in the southernmost province, this overland route has become less popular due to its potential risks.

Flying to Penang is relatively inexpensive. While a travel agent can book reservations at a hotel, you will find that Penang usually has plenty of guest houses available, both in the city center and along the much less densely populated coastline, many of which offer to carry your passport and application to the Thai consulate for you for a reasonable fee. You can find information on a wide range of guest houses at the airport. Taxis and buses serve the island very well and economically.

The nightlife is not very lively in this predominantly Muslim country, especially compared to Thailand, and is more expensive. The main ways visa-runners spend time is relaxing in fully equipped hotels or natural beachside guest houses, touring the island's tropical park, and browsing English language bookstores for things not offered in Thailand.

The main disadvantage of Malaysia is the distance from Bangkok, requiring either a plane flight or a very long train ride. Malaysia is used mainly to get new nonimmigrant or tourist visas due to the Thai consulates in Penang and Kuala Lumpur.

Cambodia

Many people fly to Phnom Penh for a tourist or nonimmigrant visa at the Thai embassy there. Just check with the latest on the political situation there, and don't stray too far from the tourist centers. However, I'd recommend Penang, Malaysia, over Phnom Penh, Cambodia.

If, instead, all you need is a "visa run" for an existing multiple entry visa, or else just another 30 day visa on arrival, then you can take a bus to Aranyaprathet, Thailand, which is right next to Poi Pet, Cambodia. The Poi Pet border town is one of the few paved roads where goods pass between the two countries (but don't think of driving your own car into Cambodia!) This has led to an immigration post there. Poi Pet is also a gambling place for Thais. Since gambling is illegal in Thailand, many Thais step over into Cambodia. Once you walk past the casinos, there isn't much in Cambodia for foreigners, and you won't see many Cambodians at all in the casinos, except service people. The cost for the bus ticket at Bangkok's Mochit Northeastern Bus Terminal to go to Aranyaprathet is only a few hundred baht each way, and it's only about 5 hours each way. There are lots of motorcycle taxis and tuk-tuks at the Aranyaprathet bus station clamoring to take you for the 10 minute ride to the border. Alternatively, there are also tour agencies on Khao Sarn Rd. and on Sukhumvit which take minivans and big buses of people to Cambodia and handle everything for you, whereby you leave Bangkok in the morning and return that evening.

The main advantage of Poi Pet, Cambodia is that it's nearest Bangkok and Pattaya, cheapest and quickest to go to by land route to Poi Pet, but there is no Thai embassy/consulate at Poi Pet so it's really good only for people who already have multiple entry visas or need a new visa on arrival.

Burma/Myanmar

Foreigners who stay in Phuket will often bus to Ranong (not to be confused with Rayong), and from there cross over to the Burmese town of Victory Point, or else the casino on another island there. There isn't much over there for foreignrs, so it's usually a quick border run.

Foreigners who stay in northern Thailand will often bus to Mae Sot for their Burma visa runs.

As with Cambodia bus runs, there are tour agencies in Phuket and around northern Thailand which will bring you there and back within the same day and handle everything. Also like Cambodia, Burma is nearest northern Thailand and Phuket, and thereby the cheapest and quickest country to go to by land route, but there is no Thai embassy/consulate at any border crossing so it's really good only for people who already have multiple entry visas or need a new visa on arrival.

Laos

Laos, or the Lao PDR (People's Democratic Republic), is a common place to go. It has its plusses and minuses, however.

If you want to go back in time and see Thailand like it was 50 years ago or more, then Laos is the place to go. The cultures are very close to each other, unlike all other neighboring countries. Landlocked and periodically isolated politically, the culture is relatively preserved. Laos is a relatively safe place, and very peaceful. If you speak Thai, then you will be understood since the two languages are about 70% the same and the Lao watch Thai TV, though the Lao will usually speak back in Lao and not Thai. English is rarely spoken in Laos.

There are a few border posts, but the only consulate/embassy is in the capital, Vientiane, which is within an hour of the Thai border at Nong Khai. You can take a bus or the 12-hour train to the border town of Nong Khai (air conditioned sleeper coach) where there are plenty of buses and tuk-tuks waiting to offer to bring you to the border crossing immigration center, and on the other side are Lao transport peddlers to take you to the capital city about 20 km away. Alternatively, you can cross at one of several border points in the north which are much more scenic and interesting, but there is no Thai consulate at those places to get a longer term visa.

The drawbacks are the following:

- Laos is a little bit conservative about allowing foreigners into the country, so you must get a visa from a Lao embassy/consulate before arriving, and Laos isn't equipped at the border to give visas to people who are arriving (unlike Cambodia and Burma)

- The Thai embassy in Vientiane is often a wild place due to masses of Indians and Bangladeshis trying to get into Thailand (see discussion below)

- Laos is a poor, rustic place with few modern hotels and conveniences, not for the luxury traveller

- There is little public transport in Vientiane or anywhere else, mostly tuk-tuks

The capital city, Vientiane, is flat as a pancake. Most visa-running tourists stay in or around the city center. It is a sleepy place. If you like nightlife during a visa run vacation, then forget Vientiane. The people who enjoy a trip to Laos are those who just like to hang out in a quiet, peaceful and inexpensive place, amidst a sedate culture. In many respects, Laos is a very charming country. It is also very poor. Most people get around on bicycles, motorcycles and ad hoc private buses. There are no street signs.

Laos is technically Communist, but it doesn't have the feel of a communist country, and indeed the Lao communists, who seized power in 1975, were one of the first communist regimes to go their own way before the revolutions elsewhere in the world in the 1980's. The government runs about 15% of the economy and what you'll see is the 85% free wheeling private economy regular businesses and markets. Police and military personnel are rarely seen (and usually on bicycles). There is no strict authoritarian interaction with ordinary tourists or anything like that. The main thing you may note about the place that smacks of Communism is lack of a free press. Under the surface, however, there is a lot of control and corruption, just like in any other nondemocratic political system.

The situation at the Thai consulate varies with time, but if you see a huge crowd of people of Indian descent, don't be intimidated. Just skip the long line, walk around them, and go to the window to submit your visa application. That is what the officials will say from time to time. They are stonewalling the majority of these applicants, and that's why there are sometimes very, very long lines. If you go to the gate at opening time, you may find a huge crowd pressing against the gate and a dangerous stampede when it opens. If you can get a visa running service you can trust, e.g., by staying at or visiting a major hotel, then you can save yourself a lot of time, energy and hassle. Be sure to get a receipt for your passport from an established entity you trust before handing it over. It can take from half a day to three days, depending upon their connections.

If you want to bring a Thai girlfriend, she can cross the border at Nong Khai for a small sum (used to be 10 baht) and just using her ID card, not a passport. However, she's supposed to return to Thailand by sunset. For stays of days, you must process the proper paperwork and pay the fee. Check with the consulate for the latest policy and details.

Regarding getting a visa to Laos, there are many reports of visas being given at reduced cost in Nong Khai. Whether you want to take a chance with this, in order to save a little money, is up to you.

Singapore

Unlike the above countries, Singapore is not a bordering country. Nonetheless, it's a popular place for people to go for a new nonimmigrant or tourist visa from the Thai embassy there, especially for people who have already been to all the above countries, or who prefer a place where everyone speaks English, or another modern place not far from Thailand time-wise. People from most countries don't need a visa to go to Singapore.

If you go to Singapore for a visa run, you should be advised that many, many people have been denied a tourist visa at the Thai embassy there on the basis that they just left on a tourist visa and must wait 30 days before re-entering Thailand on another tourist visa. Other strictness has been reported as well. Singapore is generally a noncorrupt and strict country, and this culture seems to spill over into the Thai embassy there.

I like Singapore for its English language bookstores. The main disadvantage is the cost -- the plane ticket and hotel, plus it's generally a more expensive place.

Tips

If you lose your passport and other documentation, then you could have a time consuming, expensive and difficult problem.

Make a copy of your passport, insurance information, ID cards, credit cards, airplane ticket and any other important documentation, and leave it in a safe place. If you don't have any other good place to put this information, then the ThailandGuru can help you find a secure place for copies of your documents. Spare money stashed away can also prevent hunger and poverty in case you are robbed completely.

A lost passport can be replaced at your consulate or embassy, though it takes time. If you have an emergency, then you may be able to get an immediate temporary travel permit to your home country.

Leaving your passport as collateral is a common practice, and often becomes too routine for many farangs. For example, you may be asked for your passport in exchange for renting a car, motorcycle, or other valuable commodity. This is understandable, as there are countless stories of farangs damaging or losing property and skipping the country.

Do not hand your passport over to anyone without getting a receipt which clearly links your passport with their establishment by formal logo and is signed by a responsible party. This is a common oversight. Western passports are valuable to criminals. If you don't get a receipt, then they may take advantage of the situation and run off with your passport. (They or a thief might use your passport anyway, signed receipt or not.) Do this with your lawyer, too. With everyone.

Oftentimes, a business transaction can be done with a signed agreement plus a photocopy of your passport which you sign twice in their presence, i.e., you can avoid handing over your passport for any length of time but can just hand over photocopies. You will find that most businessmen are reasonable, but they are also very cautious.

If your passport is stolen by a scammer, then when you go to your embassy to report this matter, you will probably be referred to the Thai police in the jurisdiction of the person who received your passport. Your embassy or consulate can't do much beyond its own walls, and may or may not be willing to perform the service of calling the Thai police (or better yet, the scammer who received your passport). You are responsible for your passport, regardless of what receipt you may or may not have, though a receipt might put you in a better position. Some embassies and consulates are staffed with people who really don't care or want to be bothered, regardless of the fact they're on a very high salary from the taxpayer, and you may be faced with either persuasion tactics in Thailand or anty-ing up the stakes for them, something that could just add problems and dangers to you as well. There have been corrupt western embassy and consulate staff before... However, you should also understand their experience. They also deal with a lot of false stories, and if they don't know you personally, then they may assume you are a shady character with a cooked up story. They are often overworked individuals. Nice, pushover people aren't hired for consulate kinds of jobs. Western passports are valuable commodities, and are sometimes used by organized crime to get criminals across the border (those banned by the Thai government, and those wanted by international police organizations such as Interpol), e.g., by replacing your photo with someone else's in your passport, which professional criminals know how to do. Your passport could also be used for bogus transactions. In any case, don't panic and make a bad situation worse. Cool off, find a smart and good friend with a cool head to advise and help you (if you don't already have good contacts), and proceed carefully. Most people are able to resolve such matters to their satisfaction, but you must be reasonable and considerate.

The next topic is one that I have been hesitant to discuss on the web because I don't want to see these services encouraged, but there's already been a lot of discussion of these services on the street and on the web, and I get a lot of questions in this regard. So for now, here it is:

There are many services in Bangkok and Pattaya that offer to run your passport across the border for you, whereby you just stay home. They offer to save you money on travel expenses and hotel, and save you time since you can continue working or whatever. They claim to know corrupt immigration officials who stamp piles of passports for a bribe (immigration officers of two countries, plus consulate staff based in another country for the visa -- think about it...). Obviously, this service is illegal, both by Thai law and by the law of your own country which issued you your passport. This may be a victimless, petty crime that benefits everyone involved and reduces wastage of time and resources (issues of corruption aside, in a country with underpaid civil servants and underpaid departments...). Many people have reported using such a service, and most of them reported no problems ... but many have had problems. The moral questions are obvious and I'm not going to discuss them here, nor am I going to discuss the legal issues of the practice here. Some other possible practical matters are the following: They could use your passport for fraudulent transactions. Criminals could have your identification information in the form of a copy of your passport. You may spend a lot of time explaining things related to what was done in your name, even if you are cleared of liability. It has also been reported by a number of people using this kind of service that they actually got a falsified visa stamp, recognized as such by an immigration officer they eventually had to pass thru later on. Yes, immigration officers everywhere, not just the beneficiaries of your fee, are also very much aware of this practice... and yes, a lot of guys have spent time in jail over falsified official visa stamps.

If you're so busy that you don't have time to take a travel break, then maybe you need to "get a life" and take an enjoyable travel break. If you are considering using or seeking out a service like this, then you'd better also consider whether it will affect your having a good night's sleep in Thailand.

When you leave your passport with your lawyer, you should not only get a receipt but also make clear that you don't want anything illegal done with your passport. Some lawyers handle a lot of visas and work permits, and it's been know to have a passport "accidentally" go over the border rather than down to the immigration department in Bangkok as planned. Try to find out if they do illegal operations such as phantom visa runs before you hand over your passport. It's not a bad idea to sit around their office and see what kinds of people come in and out before you use them.

It's recommended that you depend upon a reputable or highly established lawyer and firm. Be careful with referrals which may have a commission kickback to the referring person and/or which your associate has limited experience with. If you go by advertisements in the newspapers, do be aware that the newspapers generally don't check the moral standing of their advertisers, and there are known cases of ripoffs continuing to advertise despite complaints. Simple money talks.

If you can't afford an expensive lawyer and need an economical one, then the best situation is to use a lawyer who others you trust have used.

For immigration matters, you can handle most of them yourself by going to the Immigration Department located down soi Suan Plu off Sathorn Rd., as shown on the map below:

Map copyright © ThinkNet Company Limited, www.ThinkNet.co.th , Silom Rd., Bangkok, 02-635-5005, mapmagic@thinknet.co.thUsed with permission by www.ThailandGuru.com This map is a screenshot from the Bangkok CD map we recommend.